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Talk:Broly
**Wow the Broly page needs some HEAVY editing, the page was clearly written by someone with little to no command over the English language. I tried correcting it towards the beginning, but gave up given the numerous grammatical errors, and improper word usage. Return of Broly and Bio-Broly I'm thinking that this page could be better by adding a summary of Broly's life from the movies "The Return of Broly" and "Bio-Broly". This page just captures how Goku and Vegeta and the gang meet Broly for the first time. I don't know the plotlines of either movies well enough to add my contributions though. Just stating that should be a later addition. —''Unsigned comment by'' 69.216.172.152 (talk • ). Ok, I have gotten sick and tired of editing both Broly's and his Legendary super Saiyan article due to which form Gohan had when he battled Broly in the 10th movie. Gohan was in SSJ2 form for the initial part of the fight against Broly's LSSJ form. Just because He didn't have any sparks around his aura doesn't mean that he wasn't SSJ2. Remember, Toei often neglects sparks in certain scenes. Heck, even the MANGA had neglected showing sparks from time to time (Especially when it first debuted in the Cell Games.), and even IF Broly's LSSJ form was weaker than an SSJ2, we don't have any ACTUAL sources to prove that (and before anyone mentions it, the video games don't count.), so unless someone has a source from the creator saying that SSJ2 is stronger than LSSJ, we shouldn't mention that at all. Also, stop editing it to say that LSSJ is weaker than SSJ2. : Gohan wasn't fighting in super saiyan 2 form. It was clearly just super saiyan. (None of ssj2 characteristics are present). So stop puttung super saiyan 2 in the article. I agree that there is no sense in comparing ssj2 and ussj2, because the movie is not canon and the two forms never met. Avada 17:35, 12 March 2008 (UTC) ::^Except for Maybe the fact that his facial features were much, much more sterner (as a matter of fact, his face looked VERY similar to SSJ2 Teen Gohan, and by the time of the Buu saga, the typical characteristics of a FPSSJ the regular forms face, was permanently incorporated into a regular SSJ seen with [[Son_Goten|Goten]], so it HAD to be SSJ2.), as well as the fact that his aura was VERY similar to an SSJ2. Also, don't you mean LSSJ and SSJ2? And anyways, maybe they aren't of MANGA canon, but they are definitely canon considering that Akira was actually credited as the guy who wrote the stories to the movies on this site (and maybe the credits). :::I didn't notice any significant facial change. If it really were ssj2 then then the drawers/animators surely wouldn' forget about the most important characteristics of this form. The sparks and the spiky hair. The film can not be considered canon because it doesn't fit. If it were after the fight with perfect cell Son Goku would be dead, gohan would be ssj2 and trunks would have gone back to his time. If it were before the fight, then gohan wouldn't be a Super saiyan. Avada 22:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC) Sigh... I'll Post Pictures from Broly: Second Coming, and right after Gohan becomes SSJ2 at the tournament to show comparisons as soon as I get some stuff first to provide comparisons. and also, Spiky Hair? Ummm... Last time I checked, ALL Super Saiyan Transformations have spiky hair (aside from MAYBE SSJ4, but that's debatable). Also, I see you're talking about the first broly movie, And I just wanted to point out that the flashback in "The Horror won't end" (I think that was in the manga, however, please correct me if I am mistaken) said that Cell was closely monitored by Dr. Gero (or rather, Android 20) up to his death, despite Imperfect cell clearly stating in his introduction that Dr. Gero let the computer finish the job so he can focus on more recent projects. Android 17 discovered blueprints for Cell despite Trunks and Krillin never finding ANY blueprints of him. And, of course, there was the fact that he was an Android despite the fact that Cell's flashback never even HAD him as an Android. also, in the buu saga, Piccolo said that Majin Vegeta will go to hell since he caused too much pain and suffering, and yet Piccolo (BEFORE being fused with Kami) wasn't that much different from Vegeta at that time, and he STILL got to go to King Kai's planet for training DESPITE causing pain and suffering for most of his life (that's COUNTING Damiao, his "father"). So before referencing plotholes that can't make Movies fit in the timeline, remember that the Manga ALSO had these same kinds of plotholes (Esp. in the Buu Saga). BTW, I'll Post pics of Gohan's SSJ2 form in the Tournament and his SSJ/SSJ2 form in the second Broly movie as soon as I upload them and do some editing (I want to make absolute certain that the face the face is the main focus, not the sparks, the FACE). Uploaded a few images I thought i might upload some better Images of Broly if that's ok. AngusNitro41 9:59pm 27th june 2008 (UTC) Broly Being The Strongest Character? I recently got these infos from Japanese websites and heard some strange talk on Broly being the strongest character in entire DB universe even stronger than Gogeta SSJ4. Well this info says; なお、誰一人として単独でブロリーを圧倒した者は存在していない。このような驚異的設定であるが またバーダック編などの劇場版ㆍTV版脚本を手がける脚本家の小山氏からは恐怖の象徴であるとと もに、ドラゴンボール世界最強の存在とコメントされている。 This quote kinda means Broly is strongest in 1 on 1, hand to hand battle since nobody even match the strength of Broly in the series and movies therefore Koyama says he is the most fearsome and strongest of all characters in DB series and so on. DVDガイドブック- 劇場版ㆍTVアニメも含めて設定上の最強はブロリー、正攻法では絶対勝てないと しか言ってない And also the DVD guidebook says within TV animation and manga and all the movies Broly's strength is recorded to be the most powerful character that nobody could beat on 1 on 1 battle. サイヤ人に伝わる「伝説の超サイヤ人」。ベジータすら戦意を無くすほど脅威に満ちており、ピッコ ロと悟空の同時攻撃を平然と避けるなど、その体型からは想像もつかないスピードを誇る。悟空達と は違い変身における体への負担が一切なく、それどころか劇中で「気が高まる……溢れる」とある様 に、逆に気が抑えきれない程溢れ出る始末である。その為他のサイヤ人とは異なり、ブロリーの気は 何もしていなくても無限に上昇してゆくと記されている。 and plus the last part of this quote says Broly's strength is something that cannot be mesured and it is constantly rising and rising. edit Based on these infos well Japanese people says Broly is the strongest character who could outclass Gogeta 4 and they fight about these. I personally think Broly can be beaten well by probably SSJ3 level or Ultimate Gohan would do. What do you guys think about this? :The opinion of Japanese fans is no more official than the opinion of English fans. Unless Akira Toriyama (or as a stretch, perhaps Toei) was one of the ones who commented. -- 21:19, 14 October 2008 (UTC) ::Does a DVD guide count as an official statement towards Broly's strength level? I don't know, but maybe. Jap Fanboys Jap fans overrate about Broly..way too much! They claim that normal base Broly can beat Fat Buu and Super Perfect Cell and in LSSJ mode he could even take Mystic Buu in few punches I don't think Broly could do that. :It might be a good idea if you edit your comment to completely spell out "Japanese". I know you were probably just using it as an abbreviation, but that wording could be offensive to some readers. Bare in mind that in all places around the world there are some people who will have differences of opinions with others. No need to target a specific race about that! :-P -- 21:37, 18 October 2008 (UTC) Dekoshu 21:39, 18 October 2008 (UTC) !! He can. Ya sorry about that it was just an abb. just to make it shorter anyways the idea was really crazy and I want to know others think. Strongest Ever I agree that Broly is the Strongest, in 1 on 1, and might be able to beat SSJ4 Gogeta. I think that if he had lived long enough to fight Gogeta he would have been more powerfull then ever. In the first movie, Broly had the streanth of a SSJ3. When he was defeated his spacepod crashed on earthand he was frozen in a lake, unable to become stronger through training. If Broly had lived until the end of the Fusion Saga then he might have been as strong as a SSJ4, maybe stronger! So I'd hate to see what he could've done if he lived to face SSJ4 Gogeta. It would probrably be like fighting 5 SSJ4s.--Baracuss 02:44, 30 January 2009 (UTC) :But do we have anything besides supposition to support that conclusion? If not, it has little relevance to the article. -- 08:21, 4 February 2009 (UTC) I don't think he could beat SSJ4 Gogeta because #1: Broly is pretty slow while Gogeta is REALLY fast. Broly would probably be around SSJ3.--Vatek 23:02, 5 February 2009 (UTC) ::That's arguable, as Broly seemed to be fast enough to create clotheslines (by that, I mean a fighting technique where you manage to give an unexpected arm slam on an opponent, and the only way one would pull it off effectively is if he/she was very fast), Plus, he had to have been very fast in order to a. reach Gohan mere seconds after he defeated Goku, B. manage to ambush Goku and Trunks almost immediately after Ambushing and beating up Gohan, and C. Ambush Paragus shortly before killing him. Besides which, if he was slow, please explain why he was able to catch his opponents (I mean, he caught up to Gohan right after the first round and slammed/shot him)? ::Edit: another thing, just a small correction, Baracss, He did become stronger even when he was frozen and in a coma. I mean, considering how Gohan thought "He's still as much of a challenge as the last time we fought" (When, the last time he fought, he was actually fighting against his LSSj Form, not the SSJ form that Gohan was currently fighting against.), and in the Japanese version, Gohan said that Broly had even grown stronger since that fight, that would imply that not only did he still have the same strength as the previous fight, but had in fact become much stronger. ::Oh, and does a DVD guide from TV Animation and Manga count as something official? :::Correction, pretty slow compared to Gogeta.--Vatek 11:46, 6 February 2009 (UTC) What's this? People overrating Broly by 500 times? Almost dead SSJ Goku with powers from 5 almost dead SSJ-power people > Broly with 1 punch. Almost dead SSJ Goku with powers from 5 almost dead SSJ-power people do not beat Buu. At all. 3 Kamehameha's from SSJ leveled people (two of them who were just getting owned by Broly) beat Broly's strongest attack, and pushed him into the Sun, which is hax. --XOmega 12:32, 5 May 2009 (UTC) I have to say, XOmega, that when Goku punched Broly, it reopened the stab wound he got as a baby. Also, saying Gohan is SSJ1 is controversial (I personally go with the SSJ2 Theory)Metamoss 23:49, 16 August 2009 (UTC) "When Goku punched Broly, it reopened the stab wound he got as a baby". Am I the only one who sees a problem with this theory? This theory has been accepted by the fanbase as if it was downright directly stated in the movies, which I don't believe it was. Broly's stab wound was delivered when he was a baby, after 30 years it would have healed like any other wound. There is no evidence, statements or even hints in the movies that support that Goku reopened Broly's wound and that that was the reason he was defeated. Somebody came up with the theory and the entire fanbase accepted it for no reason. Also, Gohan definitely was a SSJ during the final beam struggle with Broly in movie 10, so yes, one of Broly's best attacks was overwhelmed by a kamehameha from 3 SSJ leveled people. Broly being the strongest fighter in 1 on 1 battles and can only be defeated by group effort? That doesn't even make sense. Whoever came up with that theory clearly doesn't know anything about DBZ (or at least knows very little). In DBZ it's much easier to defeat a group of weaker fighters, than to defeat one strong one. This is shown in the battles with Nappa and Recoome (just to name a few). Meaning, if Broly had been stronger than SSJ4 Gogeta, (one strong fighter) there is no way he would've been defeated by Gohan, Goten, Goku and Trunks at the levels they were during movie 10 (they were much weaker than SSJ4 Gogeta). That would be like Saiyan saga Z-fighters beating Super Buu, which is impossible and completely stupid. The reason Broly was never defeated in 1 on 1 battles isn't because he's incredibly, immensely, unbelieavably powerful, it's because he always fights whimpy opponents. In the first movie he fights and overwhelms Goku, Gohan, Trunks, Vegeta and Piccolo. At the levels they were at the time, even Super Perfect Cell would've been able to easily overwhelm them, but unlike Broly, Cell wouldn't have been defeated by one punch. In the second movie he fights a weak from lack of training SSJ2 adult Gohan, two super saiyan children (Goten and Trunks maybe super saiyans, but they're still only children with not that much experience or seriousness in battle), Krillin and Videl. Do you people see a pattern? Broly is always pitted against weak opponents because fans love to see him dominate people. The strongest fighter Broly ever fought in his entire life was SSJ2 adult Gohan, and that's not impressive at all. Saying Broly is strongest in 1 on 1 fights goes completely against the logic of DBZ battles. MajinFreeza 21:17, 23 August 2009 (UTC) Alternate Universe The bit I added (that was undone) about the alternate universes in which the movies take place didn't have anything to do with questions of canonicity. As far as I'm concerned, the movies fit fine with the canon, because of the alternate universes that are implicit in the canon (Mirai timeline, MWI quantum). AT put his name on the movies as the author, so I see no reason to offer any other disclaimer for the contradictions in the movies than "alternate universe". Opinions? Iuvenes 04:20, 10 February 2009 (UTC) :Toei Animation is the "author" of the film. Akira Toriyama submitted designs and and probably some plot suggestions (as he's done with some other films), but Toei personnel are responsible for the Broly film series. The movie contradicts the canonicity of the mainstream series, and because it has no correlation to the manga, that is what makes it non-canon (in the same way that some debate the canonicity of filler material and Dragon Ball GT). ::I understand that they aren't canon, and why - like I said, my point has nothing to do with the canonicity of the movies. I'm just saying that the plot paradoxes aren't necessarily in contradiction to the canon, because the idea of alternate universes was introduced in the canon. I don't think that the contradictions were accidental - I've seen nothing to indicate that they are mistakes, and the insistence that they are mistakes seems to me to be a shallow way of looking at it. Iuvenes 19:30, 10 February 2009 (UTC) :::No one's insisting any mistakes? That might be worded weird, but I don't understand your point which is why I have trouble responding to it. The contradictions are neither accidental no incidental. Like I said, Akira Toriyama isn't responsible for the film series, so it's reasonable that Toei writers might overlook some aspects of the series when developing the plot (it's odd because they were also involved in bringing the manga to television, but it's reasonable nonetheless). And the thing every alternate timeline established by Toriyama (and thus, undebatably canon) have in common is that the Z Fighters have been decimated, whereas in the Broly trilogy this isn't true. Besides, the three films play off of each other, so if one isn't canon, nor can be the other two. [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 19:42, 10 February 2009 (UTC) ::::What you have said makes since. The only thing is that if either Second Coming or Bio-Broly are impossible to explain as canon then that doesn't make the first film fall into the same non-canon list with the other two. Another thing is that the first movie could have easily taken place in canon. From what I have heard the first movie takes place in the ten day waiting period to the Cell games, that means that Gohan CAN go SSJ but he can't go SSJ2. I can't see anything wrong with the second movie though and if there are problems with it please tell me. The third movie has extreme problems and I disregard it as nothing more than an attempt to sell the Broly character out, not to mention its' canon problems. Imortality is a curse. 20:47, 10 February 2009 (UTC) :::::Well, Technically, if one goes by that whole "Created by" mumbo jumbo, Akira Toriyama did actually write the Broly movies (as well as the rest of the movies, but still.), so Iuvenes does have a point. I'm not sure I should say that the Broly movies take place in an AU, though. Besides, Akira has made plotholes in his own manga before (Cell's explaination of how he got his Super Perfect form in the manga says "Hello"). Still, it's not an AU, anyways. I'll agree on Bio-Broly being non-canon, though, as the part of 18 requesting the money while Goku's still dead leaves a lot to be questioned. Besides which, Broly, not to mention his clone, Bio-Broly, never even made an appearance in the next movie (I mean, if they could give Bojack, of all people, an appearance in the anime despite being one of the more powerful threats, why not Broly/Bio-Broly?), which implies that even Akira/Toei have doubts as to whether Bio-Broly's even canon. I mean, the only REAL plothole that they had in "Broly: Second Coming" was Goten somehow knowing his father (since the Earth dragon balls had been able to recover in about 4-6 months time in the end of the Kid Buu Saga (and the events of the Majin Buu saga (Not counting the Great Saiyaman saga) up to Kid Buu's defeat took place for one whole day, maybe two at most), I don't count the Dragon Ball usage in "Second Coming" as an actual plothole.). ::::::Yay, I love DB nerds. :) Iuvenes 02:49, 11 February 2009 (UTC) :I'll try to word it better - it was more of a philosophical point than a point of canonicity. I read an interview where AT said he likes making retrofitted explanations for things, and I get the feeling that his attitude toward the DBZ movies was much more positive than his attitude toward GT, for reasons that are probably pretty obvious. It's been a while since I've seen all the movies, but I do remember that some of them had fewer paradoxes than others, and some of them are inane things such as Gohan wearing the clothes Piccolo made him when he came out of the time chamber, but not being able to go SS. It's just a fun overtone to the movies to me, and part of what made them interesting (in a couple of unfortunate cases, the only thing that made them interesting). Iuvenes 02:49, 11 February 2009 (UTC) Not in super 17? Hhe in fact was actually. However, it was a breif appearance on the television set and then he didn't show up again...odd and stupid IMO, a wasted oppertunity but w/e..so was cooler and as we all know that also didn't become anything.--Chipmonk328 :Actually, no. Broly did not make an appearance in the Super 17 saga of GT.'-- bulletproof' 06:44, 19 February 2009 (UTC) Time to end this. I have noticed that some people are trying to downplay Broly's power by claiming that Gohan was only Super Saiyan 1/ Full Power Super Saiyan during their rematch in Broly: Second Coming. Since it is canonically proven that he IS Super Saiyan 2 during that Battle, I want to put this to an end. First of all, Gohan, after he had transformed, had only one bang in front of his face (Other than the old "bio-electric sparks" indicator, another good way to differentiate between SSJ and SSJ2 (or in this case, FPSSJ and SSJ2) is via the amount of locks on their hair.). Had he been a Full Power Super Saiyan, or heck, even a Regular Super Saiyan, he would have had one big lock and one tiny lock of hair. Second of all, Broly TRANSFORMED into the Legendary Super Saiyan right after witnessing Gohan transform (and his facial expression implied that he realized that he can't beat it in his current form shortly before transformation.). Seeing how. A. He was strongly implied in the movie to have become significantly stronger over the seven year coma, and B. He pretty much beat Goten and Trunk's SSJ/FPSSJ forms (I'm not sure which of the two it was, to be honest, seeing how, they hadn't trained their SSJ forms (or at least, weren't seen to have trained), they should theoretically be just Regular Super Saiyans, but the fact that their facial features resemble their Base form more than a Regular Super Saiyan would imply that they were FPSSJs.) without breaking a sweat in his SSJ form alone (in the case of SSJ Trunks, he beat him twice), so if he could beat up not one, but TWO SSJs/FPSSJs in his SSJ form alone, then, IF Gohan had only transformed into a FPSSJ, then Broly wouldn't have even needed to go Legendary Super Saiyan. Basically, stop trying to change it. Retrieved from "http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Legendary_Super_Saiyan" However, he was SSJ in the Kamehameha vs. Omega Blaster struggle. He had 2 bangs. --XOmega 12:34 5 May 2009 (UTC) Hey, I was only focusing on the fight between Gohan and Broly (Note that I said FIGHT, not Beamstruggle), which was what everyone was editing. How can it be canonically proven if the movie isn't canon? It can't even take place in the storyline because of Trunks' appearance in the first movie. Unless of course you meant canon in the Movie :Simple, the Daizenshuu states that Gohan was SSJ2. And, yes, I did mean "Canon to the movie", though really, if we divide the franchise between Anime and Manga only, then technically, Movie 8 and 10 are canon to the Anime, at least. :As for your comment about Trunks, he can still appear in Movie 8 and still make it canon, as the raw for Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan explicitly said it took place during the 10 day wait for the Cell Games. ::Which of course doesn't make any sense at all, because they (Gohan and Goku) should be training their FPSSJ form, and not signing up for school. And the fact that they're signing up for school, when Cell just announced that if no one could beat him, he would be destroying Earth. --XOmega 11:22 26 July 2009 (UTC) king vegeta i don't get it... the article states that king vegeta died on the same day that broly was born. so how could king vegeta have tried to execute broly? --Skydude176 16:13, 11 April 2009 (UTC) :I think the article tried to say that King Vegeta ordered his men to execute Broly. In fact, the only character in that scene he himself tried to kill was Paragus. Great ape in reference to the triva section, Broli would pose an overwhelming threat in his great ape form, which is supposedly why he had his tail reremoved. So, is there any way to draw a comparison to the power that he would have as a "Legendary Golden Oozaru" or possibly even a Legedary SSJ4. :You know, I recall hearing about a LSSJ4 Broly being sold on Ebay. James-50 It does not matter what daizenshu say's. As a matter of fact regardless how powerful he is, he's in only LSS means He only very close to a SS2 mean he is slightly weaker than a SS2. Here's a list of characters who overpowered him: Cell (Full power perfect form (Tie)/Super Perfect form) Buu (Super buu/Kid buu) Super Janemba Gogeta Vegeto Gotenks (unknown) Omega Shenron/Nyn shenron Other stronger shadow dragon as Nouva and Eis Super Android 13(tie)(almost could) Hirudegarn Ultimate Gohan and SS2 kid Gohan Hatchyack Super 17 Baby Vegeta (fully controlled/Golden Great-Ape) SS3 Goku Super Cell jrs. :First off, I'm not "James-50". Secondly, many of these characters/forms are either debated or not likely to even fare with Broly. Perfect Cell (Full power or otherwise) would not be able to fare against Broly if fighting at full power (Cell, at most, can destroy Earth only with a supercharged, immense Kamehameha Wave.). Heck, look at Vegeta's reaction to fighting Cell compared to fighting Broly (While Vegeta was definitely sore about being beaten by Cell, he was not afraid of him. Likewise, Vegeta WAS afraid of Broly. His Big Bang attack failed to even phase Broly when the latter didn't even focus on Vegeta, whileas Vegeta was actually able to hurt Super Perfect Cell to some extent during the beamstruggle groaned in pain). As for the Cell Jr's, let me remind you that the Cell Jr's were about 1/7th of Cell's overall power, and before anyone points out the fact that the Cell Jr's were actually able to take out a Full Power Super Saiyan (Goku) during that mess, let me just remind you that Goku had not recovered from the fight didn't even eat a Senzu Bean after the match., so he was somewhat handicapped. Even when Cell was at Super Perfect Cell form, he only had enough power to destroy the Entire Solar System, at most (Plus, he needed an even more supercharged Kamehameha to do the job.). :Now Buu, I'm pretty sure that Kid Buu, at least, would be an even match for Broly (Kid Buu is the only villain other than Broly who is capable of destroying planets at the absolute minimum of his overall power.). It's implied in the Anime, at least that the absorbtions of Kaioshins made Buu weaker than before the Manga suggests otherwise, but since we're strictly dealing with the Anime, anyways, it won't matter.. If that hint was to be taken as truth, that means that Super Buu would not be capable of defeating Broly (Absorbing him, maybe, but definitely not defeating him), and it was also implied that Super Buu in Piccolo form would NOT be able to fare against Goku ("You don't expect to fight me in that!"), whom by that point was already surpassed by Gohan upon reaching his Ultimate Form. As for Hirudegarn, we'll need to see about that. SSJ2 Gohan was officially confirmed to be weaker than Broly in LSSJ form, so he's out. SSJ3 Goku, well, considering how SSJ3 Goku ends up getting extremely fatigued the point of being exhausted even long after the fight is over, and in the case of temporal revival, is enough to even cut his remaining temporal energy in half in the anime, completely drain the energy when doing it the second time in front of Trunks and Goten, trying to compare SSJ3 to LSSJ would be like trying to compare USSJ to PC (In other words, while SSJ3 may end up being powerful compared to LSSJ, being hit by LSSJ would not only end up a OH-KO in regards to SSJ3, but being killed before it could even try to regain energy.). :Meta-Cooler definitely won't fare well against LSSJ. If I must remind you, Goku and Vegeta were regular SSJs by that point (as in, untrained, non enhanced SSJs), whileas a Super Namek, two ASSJ's, and Two FPSSJs working together could not even scratch Broly in LSSJ. Besides, one Eraser Cannon on the Big Gete Star, and Broly would basically destroy all the Meta-Coolers (since the Meta-Coolers are only capable of those regenerative/enhancement powers due to the Big Gete Star. If any survived the destruction of the Big Gete Star, they most certainly would not be able to regenerate their wounds or remove defects.). Heck, going by the fact that Kid Trunks and Goten in their FPSSJ forms were completely whupped by Broly's SSJ form, he may not even NEED his LSSJ form to beat Metal Cooler. Super 17 may be able to make Broly's Ki attacks useless, but I don't think that he will be capable of faring against Broly's strength (especially seeing how Goku as a kid was able to pretty much smash through Super 17's defenses). Baby Vegeta might pose a bit more of a threat against LSSJ Broly, but I'm pretty sure that Broly LSSJ is still able to defeat him. :Hatchyak may be stated to be at Broly's level, but I don't think it ever specified whether it was Movie 8 Broly or Movie 10 Broly (and it was quite clear that Movie 10 Broly was stronger than Movie 8 Broly.). The rest are unconfirmed as it is (for all we know, Broly could be able to defeat any of them or be stronger than any of them.) 1. Vegeta never used the Big Bang attack on Broly, that was just a random energy blast. Still, I agree Broly would defeat Perfect Cell, but I don't think he can beat Super Perfect Cell. 2. It was never stated in the manga how strong the Cell Juniors were compared to Cell, so saying they're 1/7 of his strength isn't a very valid argument. Still, I agree a Cell Junior couldn't defeat Broly. 3. Kid Buu wouldn't be an even match for Broly, he would slaughter Broly. In the manga, Kid Buu did a lot better against SSJ2 Vegeta than Broly did against SSJ2 adult Gohan (SSJ2 Vegeta is much stronger than SSJ2 adult Gohan by the way). 4. You're actually using Funimation's dub errors as facts? In the manga, Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu and for the manga characters that's fact. It doesn't matter what the anime says if the manga disagrees. Kid Buu is just more dangerous due to his insanity. Super Buu would also slaughter Broly. 5. Ultimate Gohan (considering he's stronger than Super Buu) would slaughter Broly. 6. Hirudegarn (considering he overpowered Ultimate Gohan) would slaughter Broly. 7. SSJ2 adult Gohan was shown to be weaker than Broly. SSJ2 Teen Gohan is much stronger than SSJ2 adult Gohan, and would probably be able to beat Broly. 8. SSJ3 Goku (considering he fought evenly with Kid Buu) would slaughter Broly. 9. Agreed, Metal Cooler would get slaughtered by Broly. 10. Super 17 and Baby Vegeta (considering each of them is much stronger than all the previous characters in this list) would slaughter Broly. 11. Hatchyak is compared to movie 8 Broly, meaning he would get slaughtered by movie 10 Broly. MajinFreeza 22:15, 23 August 2009 (UTC) :MajinFrieza, you DO realize that KamehamehaX10 (The User, I mean) ended the discussion, right? Yes, I know. But I just had to reply considering how many flaws there were in that statement. MajinFreeza 06:25, 24 August 2009 (UTC) :Plus, sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. (I can't wait for the Broly vs. Cell Jr. section of the power comparisons forum to come up.) : D 06:42, 24 August 2009 (UTC) True, sometimes you just can't reach a real agreement. Broly vs Cell Junior? Well...that should be interesting. lol MajinFreeza 08:34, 24 August 2009 (UTC) James-50 Well that does not count. And what makes you think he'S stronger than Cell. no he isn't he's very close to a SS2 mean he's He can't kill Cell and Gohan, Despite about the game where's he's in SS3 and even other fighters in the list especially Cell Jrs. End of discussion. Also Super buu could have outmatch broly. Broly vs. Other Characters Hey guys, this isn't the most appropriate place for a discussion of theoretical battles and power levels. However, I invite you to continue your discussion here. Feel free to make any conjectures or speculation on the forum pages, rather that in the articles discussions (which are mainly for formatting issues, etc.). Thanks! 03:55, 20 August 2009 (UTC) Brolly destroy galaxies why exactly shouldn't this be here? it happened and it shows his power--Croc117 04:26, September 8, 2009 (UTC) :It doesn't show his power. It shows more ranting as to why Broly is either stupendous or unparalleled. We want to try and avoid unseen material as much as possible for the most part. If we must speculate, it's better to completely leave out these "galaxy destruction" references. If anything, it's already been stated, and it definitely doesn't belong in repetition in another section; definitely not the trivia section, as it doesn't comprise of trivia but is very inconsequential. - 05:14, September 8, 2009 (UTC) what do you mean unseen? it's the first thing seen in movie 8-- 20:34, September 8, 2009 (UTC) :It's unseen. There's nothing seen in movie 8 that of which shows his power. Paragus goes to get Vegeta, etc. and bring them deceitfully to the planet to remove them. That's it. There's no showcasing of Broly (and he barely even appears in the movie's first half). - 21:56, September 8, 2009 (UTC) yes it is it shows a galaxy watch the movie it's the very first scene, the narrator says somthing to the effect of the south galaxy is laid waste to by a super saiyan watch it here http://clip.vn/watch/-DBZ-Movie-8-BROLY-The-Legendary-Super-Saiyan,WWJM --Swg66 01:40, September 9, 2009 (UTC) :"The south galaxy has been shattered... by a super saiyan" King Kai: "No, no. It's all gone." (although this is non-canon). It's one galaxy. Not galaxies. Not plural. Singular. And it's very inconsequential. Nor is it mentioned again. It doesn't need to be repeated in the article somewhere. In the section entitled "Subduing the Unstable", right near the end, this is already mentioned in his bio itself. - 03:29, September 9, 2009 (UTC) why would it being non-canon matter? broly is a non-canon charecter so it's moot to say so, and the whole galaxy vs galaxy's is pointless, the point is he can destroy multiple galixies not nessecarily at once but he can, and it does show his power as it's feat not seen by any other character--Swg66 04:18, September 9, 2009 (UTC) :Now this is a useless rant. I just pointed that this is already mentioned in his article. We must avoid repetition. All repetition is subject to removal. The material is already on his article so this now holds no point for conversation. - 04:21, September 9, 2009 (UTC) I agree with PrinceZarbon on this one. Broly destroying the South Galaxy is a feat full of plotholes, and shouldn't be mentioned that often. In the japanese version of movie 8, it's stated in the beginning that the South Galaxy had been ATTACKED by a Super Saiyan, not shattered. Also, King Kai told Goku that the Super Saiyan was IN the South Galaxy. When Goku teleported there, we could still see lots of planets and stars in the sky, meaning the Galaxy wasn't destroyed. That's why that whole statement is full of plotholes. Broly didn't destroy the South Galaxy, he destroyed MOST of the South Galaxy. There's a difference. MajinFreeza 14:18, September 12, 2009 (UTC) :Or he may have just shattered it, and the impact may have destroyed a few planets. It can be explained in so many ways, that's why we want to try and avoid stuff like that at all costs. We want to be encyclopedic as much as possible in terms of actions. For example, Frieza is confirmed to have destroyed planet Vegeta. He didn't shatter the planet. He obliterated it from the face of the universe. We know he did that. It's not limited to one dubbing, or one version. It's a stated factual action. That's why we aren't hesitant in attributing the actual action to him. But in the case of Broly, what with the entire feat itself being non-canon, and the dubbing errors to boot, it all seems like a trivial addendum. Some fans just want to express his strength through the destruction of a galaxy to better add to his persona or something of that nature, but in the end, Broly's just not that important or integral to even hold a candle to the canonical villains. Even Raditz plays more of a role than Broly. And that's saying a lot. Thanks MajinFreeza for noticing the dubbing inconsistency by the way. I hate these errors they make in dubbing, it confuses audiences furthermore, whom are familiar with the Japanese dub well enough to know the differential factors. - 03:11, September 13, 2009 (UTC) Exactly, shattering a Galaxy isn't the same as destroying it. Shattering a Galaxy probably means making it lose it's shape and having it's planets and stars fly off into different directions. I'm not a rocket scientist but I assume this might be achieved by disrupting the gravitational force inside the Galaxy or something like that, and it definitely doesn't mean that the one who did it (in this case, Broly) has enough power to actually destroy it completely. I'm sure that we're both aware of the fact of just how overrated Broly really is. And I'm afraid it's only going to get worse from now on, since the video games keep adding fuel to the fire. First there was that ridiculous statement in Tenkaichi 3 (if I'm not mistaken) where Broly was stated to be stronger than Kid Buu, which he clearly isn't. And now SSJ3 Broly in Raging Blast. You just know it will result in creating an even bigger army of Broly fanboys. You're welcome, PrinceZarbon. I'm just happy to help. MajinFreeza 11:09, September 13, 2009 (UTC) :Well, even if he didn't actually obliterate the Galaxy, he did still have enough power to destroy the galaxy on a massive scale (Hence King Kai's fearful reaction). On a related note, going by some of the dialogue, Broly may have been able to destroy planets even when he was basically watered down by Paragus's mind control device to the extent that he was basically weaker than his father implied that it was due to the ring that he was significantly weaker than Paragus, due to Paragus's statements of developing that crown so he can control Broly's power, the fact that Broly apparantly couldn't access his Super Saiyan form on his own volition due to the ring [In fact, the only reason he was able to consciously access his Super Saiyan form was due to Goku appearing. While it's implied that Broly did indeed access his Super Saiyan form when he and Paragus attacked Shamoa at the very least, if not the other planets/systems in the South Galaxy after Paragus placed the crown on his head, it's also implied that that was mainly because Paragus willed it through the mind control device, and not because Broly actually wanted to., the fact that Broly's power was increasing during the fight with Goku, and even Paragus's statement about Broly being pitiful due to his being far less powerful than himself that was during the time he was controlled.. It's also implied that he only allows Broly just enough power to go Super Saiyan, and nothing higher in terms of power output, when using him to attack planets due to the Shamoans statements about the super saiyan who attacked their planet, the fact that it became increasingly difficult for Broly to be subdued after Goku appeared, and the last time he tried to command Broly, it had absolutely no effect when he yelled "Broly, Attack!".], so there is a slight chance that he may have the ability to completely obliterate the entire Galaxy, or even multiple galaxies simultaneously, if not hinder the crown. I'm just trying to use pure logic and reasoning skills to determine this. ::Actually, all you're using is called speculation. Logic is only used when people apply facts. To speculate what he "could have done" or what he was "capable of doing" accounts for nothing. "If it hadn't been that way, it might have been like this." These are all probabilities and possibilities, not fact. None of it accounts for fact. And fact is the only thing we attribute, no more, no less. On another note, please try to sign your post next time. - 22:24, September 13, 2009 (UTC)